Curse

Richardt · Sep 05, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

why the hell would you do that?

unless theres already an imbagon in your party... then go ahead and use flail.

I'm not saying to go ahead and use Flail, I'm saying that your argument that Flail is bad because it takes away adrenaline from SY! is flawed. There are a wide variety of other paragon builds out there that will work that don't require putting out SY! 24/7. And there are those out there that might like a challenge from time to time and don't use a game breaking mechanic like spamming 100 armor.

And as for my reason's for not imbagon from time to time, lets say that running the same build gets tedious after a while and it's good to take a break and pimp slap enemies with Cruel Spear from time to time

Tyla · Sep 05, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

With regards to AR vs. flurry (PvE): a lot of you seem to think that AR = more damage. That's false. 25% base damage reduction is only like ~5-10 damage. When you take into consideration vampiric, orders, EBSoH, GDW etc, flurry is obviously better. And it's just not the damage - flurry + GDW = 12% more knockdowns from you. The only technical problem with flurry is energy (I haven't actually tried flurry out yet). But there is also the monotony of casting every 5 seconds. But then again, AR is a pain keeping up out of battle.

I guess that just means I'll end up using drunken master, since all other IAS end up feeling like work

If I'm running a group that organized, it'll probably be in an elite area where I'm using consumables, so AR / DM will win there.

Savio · Sep 05, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

When you take into consideration vampiric, orders, EBSoH, GDW etc, flurry is obviously better.

Under those conditions, Flurry would do 1-2 more DPS than AR. But then, under those conditions you're already averaging 80 DPS. It wouldn't be worth the energy or effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

I'm not saying to go ahead and use Flail, I'm saying that your argument that Flail is bad because it takes away adrenaline from SY! is flawed. There are a wide variety of other paragon builds out there that will work that don't require putting out SY! 24/7.

It doesn't matter whether it's SY or other adrenaline skills, Flail will still take adrenaline away from them, in exchange for 8% faster attacking and no Cracked Armor. That's not a good tradeoff.

Richardt · Sep 05, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I never said that it was a good tradeoff. In fact, never anywhere did I say not to use AR.

I was pointing out that if you're going to say "Don't use this skill because it takes adrenaline from SY!" that's a flawed argument-there are plenty of other builds that don't use SY that are still viable. Saying that it takes away adrenaline from other skills is much better.

AtomicMew · Sep 05, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Under those conditions, Flurry would do 1-2 more DPS than AR. But then, under those conditions you're already averaging 80 DPS. It wouldn't be worth the energy or effort.

It's probably more than that because all the damage being amplified is armor ignoring, whereas base damage is not. Also remember it's 12.5% more knockdowns and 12.5% more adrenaline.

Personally, I take orders + MoP/splinter heroes, and so it's a bit harder to quantify in this case. But I think strictly speaking, flurry > AR as long you can keep the energy up. Who knows though, I haven't tried it because I see no reason not to use drunken master

My Lipgloss is Cool · Sep 06, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Also remember it's 12.5% more knockdowns and 12.5% more adrenaline.

With Flail, you'll get about 5 hits per usage. The extra adren is far out shadowed by the upkeep cost.

Or, you can say that you're getting so much adren that flail isn't even noticeable. In which case, your extra adren gain is useless.

AtomicMew · Sep 06, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

With Flail, you'll get about 5 hits per usage. The extra adren is far out shadowed by the upkeep cost.

Or, you can say that you're getting so much adren that flail isn't even noticeable. In which case, your extra adren gain is useless.

I'm not talking about flail. Learn to read.

Bowstring Badass · Sep 07, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Honestly why would you take flurry? AR is basically flurry but never ending. Honestly AR is the best IAS for paragon simply because you apply it once and never worry bout it again. Seriously AR>Flail. Unless your a war using a spear (god knows why you would).

Akimb0 · Sep 10, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

My votes for AR, but they really should change the "Cracked armour" to just -20 armour while attacking. The loss of armour isn't really a problem, it's the fact that it puts a condition on you, which fills the reqs. for some skills used against you.